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#21 CNN_Maryland

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:53 AM

Oh no, don't get what I'm saying wrong. I don't believe Al Jazeera America won't make their own mark and be different from Al Jazeera in Qatar, and I'm not saying they're run by terrorists. I'm saying Al Jazeera clearly has ties to the Muslim brotherhood, a Muslim extremist group who promotes terrorism. I'm defiantly not saying the amazing journalists of AJA Ali Velshi, Soledad O'Brien, David Shuster, Adam May (my friend), Richelle Carey, etc. are terrorists. I'm saying the company they work did or does have ties to the Muslim brotherhood, who perpetrated terrorist attacks,

Okay so I guess I don't have a clear point about how this will affect Al Jazeera America's coverage. I've lost my train of though, but trust me, I am not a conservative evangelical Christian who religiously watches FOX News and gets information from them. In fact I'm a progressive liberal agnostic. I'm not judging this news network by the religion of their owners, but by the extremism of those that fund the network. I'm DONE!

#22 jjerome95

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:56 AM

This is a bit ridiculous. Today has been about a terrorist news organization and a questionable screen-name. Maybe it's time for everyone to make a happy post. I hope we haven't scared off any potential members.

And I do hope AJAM has a live stream. Guarantee I won't have it for a while.

Edited by jjerome95, 06 August 2013 - 01:58 AM.

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#23 CNN_Maryland

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:00 AM

This is a bit ridiculous. Today has been about a terrorist news organization and a questionable screen-name. Maybe it's time for everyone to make a happy post. I hope we haven't scared off any potential members.
And I do hope AJAM has a live stream. Guarantee I won't have it for a while.


Read this line I wrote: I'm saying the company they work did or does have ties to the Muslim brotherhood, who perpetrated terrorist attacks

I'm not calling them a terrorist group. But remember when Al Jazeera in Qatar was invaded by the Egyptian military in June and several staff members were arrested. That was because AJ had backed the Muslim brotherhood, the same extremist group that Muhammed Morsi ran for.

#24 jjerome95

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:08 AM

I typed that before I saw your post, just to let you know.

I don't know what's more interesting, your standpoint of the others who are flabbergasted at you.

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#25 CNN_Maryland

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:20 AM

Again, I can see why people are looking at my standpoint as controversial. I'm not judging a religion and I'm not claiming AJA as terrorists, just I feel there needs to be more investigating into the connection to the Muslim brotherhood in Qatar.

#26 Carolina Argentina

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 04:42 AM

i tried to reply to this, but couldn't say anything that wasn't v.v. rude.   You can find things to support almost anything on the internet, but it doesn't mean it's true.   Blocking people with views like this.  



#27 CNN_Maryland

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 05:05 AM

The fact that Al Jazeera staff members were arrested for ties to the Muslim Brotherhood is a reported fact on CNN

#28 Charles

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:37 AM

Okay, I'll take a stab at this. I'll try to make it bite-sized, just so that it's easy to swallow.

 

CNN_Maryland, the conclusion that you've drawn isn't necessarily incorrect — I also think Al Jazeera has lost its way to some degree — but the means by which your argument is supported are unsophisticated, and your understanding of Islam, extremism, and public television are shallow at best.

 

1) State-owned television does *not* necessarily mean state-run television. Almost every country in some way or another has a public media outlet that is funded by the government. That doesn't mean that the government always influences its coverage. The BBC is funded by the BBC Trust and British licensing fees, and the BBC produces great, independent journalism. The same goes for PBS in the U.S., although PBS has been neglected for decades. Al Jazeera, too, is funded by the Qatari government, though they've been granted editorial independence as well. This is state-owned television, where a firewall separates government policy from television agenda. State-run television is the more blatant dictation of government public policy. Good examples are PressTV in Iran or Channel 10 in Israel, among many others. PressTV will never air any views that paint the US, NATO, or the EU in a good light, and Channel 10 will never give a fair voice to the Palestinians. The point is that just because a government owns a TV station doesn't necessarily mean that said TV station will toe the government's view and their view only. Public broadcasting, when given editorial independence, can be a swelling source for good journalism and the public good when it is liberated from corporate pressures.

 

2) Some notes about Qatar and Al Jazeera's founding. Qatar is a relatively unknown nation that has only risen to prominence in the last two decades. They've formed an interesting foreign policy in that they haven't gained notoriety for forming a large military or engaged in extensive interventionism; rather, they've focused their efforts on more benevolent and charitable projects in order to build a good image, such as Al Jazeera, the education and research-driven Qatar Foundation, and a world class airline. Other small nation states such as Singapore have used a similar technique (though on a smaller scale). What made the original Al Jazeera Arabic service so revolutionary in the Middle East in 1996 was that it was the first news network in the region that wasn't state-run and tarnished with regime propaganda. AJA was groundbreaking in that, for instance, they would have debate programs where for perhaps the first time in cable television, an Israeli voice and a Palestinian voice were placed on the same playing field, and because AJA was free-to-air over satellite, it was difficult for government regimes to censor it. Al Jazeera's original mission of giving all sides a fair hearing is what made it so controversial — controversial to Israelis, controversial to the U.S. government, and even controversial to other Arab nations. Al Jazeera has used this model and replicated it (with success) in launching other networks, including English, Serbian, and the soon-to-be Al Jazeera America. AJE's journalistic freedom is what has attracted so many of the world's greatest broadcast journalists, including Sir David Frost, to the network.

 

3) I can't believe I have to say this, but Al Jazeera did not orchestrate the September 11, 2001 attacks. Nor did Qatar. Nor did the Muslim Brotherhood. Nor did the Taliban. 9/11 was orchestrated solely by Al Qaeda. Put simply, the Muslim Brotherhood is a political movement in various Arab states and is unrelated to Al Qaeda. It is one of the oldest, and it has promoted a non-violent message since the 1970s. The Muslim Brotherhood has no modern connection to Al Qaeda, though Al Qaeda was formed by some disenfranchised Muslim Brotherhood members who wanted to promote a violent interpretation of jihad and to express a radical rejection of American ideals. The Muslim Brotherhood condemned the 9/11 attacks and had no connection to them. The Muslim Brotherhood is not free from flaw, by any means, but it is worlds apart from radical Islam groups, and the direct link between them as you suggest is untrue. The fact that your argument would use American lives as a scare tactic in a conversation is cheap and reprehensible.

 

4) So where is the connection between Al Jazeera and the Muslim Brotherhood? The Qatari government crossed the aforementioned firewall. This is where I agree with you in some ways in that Al Jazeera has lapsed its long-held standards of integrity and fairness, though this is problematic in that it's not causing Al Jazeera to promote terrorism (as you falsely accuse), but rather that it's causing Al Jazeera to report on Egyptian uprisings unfairly. The Qatari government (which is not the same thing as Al Jazeera, merely its benefactor) has recently used the Arab Spring as a means to exercise its diplomatic power, backing the Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt and Mustafa Sabbagh in Syria. This is problematic in that Qatar is picking losers, and because it has turned into a public image issue with Qatar, the Qatari government has decided to step over the aforementioned firewall with Al Jazeera to slant its coverage in Egypt and Syria in hopes of salvaging Qatar's image. It goes without saying that this is bad and is frustrating to many who have praised Al Jazeera (myself included). Furthermore, Qatar's government has been driving the new Al Jazeera America network to be less daring and controversial than its sister networks, leading many to believe that AJAM has been castrated and that the version of what was Al Jazeera that will debut later this month will kowtow to the U.S. government and the side of power — what CNN, Fox, and MSNBC currently do. (So if anything, you'll probably like what you seen on AJAM, CNN_Maryland, though for the wrong reasons). So yes, I definitely have reservations about the upcoming AJAM, though my criticisms are far more nuanced than the former Dick Cheney lines of screaming "Terror TV!" Though hopefully, as the Michael Stephens article to which I linked suggests, the Qatari government will probably reverse its role and let Al Jazeera remain independent again, as Qatar have backtracked on relatively bold foreign policy decisions before.

 

5) Just because you've likely had Twitter exchanges with a Baltimore reporter who has been recently hired by AJAM does not mean you can call him your friend. I leave room for my claim to be disproved, though I (and I bet many others) would be surprised to find you hanging out at a bar with an AJAM reporter last weekend.

 

6) It's great to have discussion about these topics, and it's a very interesting intersection between media and government, though it's probably best that you take just a little more time taking everything in before forming your own opinion and justifying it with empirical evidence. We were all at that point sometime. I will always welcome a good discussion, and I would be more than happy to clarify any of my points.

 

P.S. HaBa, don't leave! You're one of the best chorus figures for CNNI around.


Edited by Charles, 06 August 2013 - 09:38 AM.


#29 Carolina Argentina

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:08 AM

Excellent, Charles. Outstanding.  

 

Heba, despite our disagreements, please don't leave.  Charles is correct (Charles is always correct)  we need you here.  I've noticed that you're not here and lamented it.   This site seems to solely be about graphics, whose on the show now or in the past & DNN Domestic.  I know that this is interesting to many people, but I'm really only interested in CNNi.  



#30 modlib

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:26 PM

Well said Charles. You explained the nuance to the potential legitimate problems with Al Jazeera America far better than I ever could. AJAM is not free of criticism (neither is the rest of American cable news) but let's be specific about our complaints rather than just calling them supporters of terrorism.

#31 Boaserpent

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 05:09 PM

I'm sorry, but I just feel like this is escalating a little far. As far as I see it, Ali Velshi is a great guy, and I'd be more than happy to get my economic news. I don't expect him to be brainwashed into this Anti-American regime. 

 

What we aren't realizing is that the path we are hearing about involves the content being produced entirely in the US. If that's the case, I doubt that we'd get producer's running anti-american stories. I think that we should give it a chance as the change we've been barking about on this forum. Stereotyping every Al J employee based on the actions of others in the same reason people think everyone of muslim faith is a terrorist. 

 

Doesn't the FCC have to regulate the airwaves, meaning they have the option of not licensing Al J Am.

 

 

Now to play Devil's advocate - Being Anti-American and shouting death to america, IMO, are two different things. Because the US has a great thing about free speech, Al J can be the former and still be able to pay their opinion, but I don't think they will. I think they'll tone it down and really try to appeal to the US. 

 

And I would love to see this article where Al Jazeera was a part of 9/11. Because, without seeing your source, I find that a pretty far stretch. Now. I see you are very opinionated, and I'm just trying to understand it on a deeper level. 

 

when i read "i think they'll tone it down" you suggest the other aljazeera channels are anti-american, which is false. i don't know if you watch aljazeera english, but it's imo one of the best newsprograms in the world.



#32 Boaserpent

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 05:16 PM

Oh no, don't get what I'm saying wrong. I don't believe Al Jazeera America won't make their own mark and be different from Al Jazeera in Qatar, and I'm not saying they're run by terrorists. I'm saying Al Jazeera clearly has ties to the Muslim brotherhood, a Muslim extremist group who promotes terrorism. I'm defiantly not saying the amazing journalists of AJA Ali Velshi, Soledad O'Brien, David Shuster, Adam May (my friend), Richelle Carey, etc. are terrorists. I'm saying the company they work did or does have ties to the Muslim brotherhood, who perpetrated terrorist attacks,

Okay so I guess I don't have a clear point about how this will affect Al Jazeera America's coverage. I've lost my train of though, but trust me, I am not a conservative evangelical Christian who religiously watches FOX News and gets information from them. In fact I'm a progressive liberal agnostic. I'm not judging this news network by the religion of their owners, but by the extremism of those that fund the network. I'm DONE!

 

kind of funny how these extremist that fund the network are one of america's biggest allies. you know the largest military base in the middle east lies in the tiny peninsula of qatar? do you know how many millions qatar donated for the victims of katrina?



#33 Boaserpent

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 05:24 PM

The fact that Al Jazeera staff members were arrested for ties to the Muslim Brotherhood is a reported fact on CNN

 

i don't get it. this isn't something new. al jazeera has a history of getting blocked, arrested, etc. al jazeera is/has been banned in numerous countries including egypt, kuwait, iraq, algeria, syria, yemen, israel, etc. why don't you get that they aren't welcome b/c they report things they shouldn't? the muslim brotherhood-thing is just an excuse from the military to justify their actions.



#34 jjerome95

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 05:32 PM


I'm sorry, but I just feel like this is escalating a little far. As far as I see it, Ali Velshi is a great guy, and I'd be more than happy to get my economic news. I don't expect him to be brainwashed into this Anti-American regime.

What we aren't realizing is that the path we are hearing about involves the content being produced entirely in the US. If that's the case, I doubt that we'd get producer's running anti-american stories. I think that we should give it a chance as the change we've been barking about on this forum. Stereotyping every Al J employee based on the actions of others in the same reason people think everyone of muslim faith is a terrorist.

Doesn't the FCC have to regulate the airwaves, meaning they have the option of not licensing Al J Am.


Now to play Devil's advocate - Being Anti-American and shouting death to america, IMO, are two different things. Because the US has a great thing about free speech, Al J can be the former and still be able to pay their opinion, but I don't think they will. I think they'll tone it down and really try to appeal to the US.

And I would love to see this article where Al Jazeera was a part of 9/11. Because, without seeing your source, I find that a pretty far stretch. Now. I see you are very opinionated, and I'm just trying to understand it on a deeper level.


when i read "i think they'll tone it down" you suggest the other aljazeera channels are anti-american, which is false. i don't know if you watch aljazeera english, but it's imo one of the best newsprograms in the world.

I don't think I've spoken too you before, so hello. And no, I don't get Al J E. because most American companies don't carry it.

And I'm basing tone it down on that article that said they can take two directions.

But I wish I could watch AJE, and I don't think they're anti American, I just think they aren't afraid to carry stories that aren't glorifying Washington.

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#35 Boaserpent

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 06:27 PM

 

 

I'm sorry, but I just feel like this is escalating a little far. As far as I see it, Ali Velshi is a great guy, and I'd be more than happy to get my economic news. I don't expect him to be brainwashed into this Anti-American regime.

What we aren't realizing is that the path we are hearing about involves the content being produced entirely in the US. If that's the case, I doubt that we'd get producer's running anti-american stories. I think that we should give it a chance as the change we've been barking about on this forum. Stereotyping every Al J employee based on the actions of others in the same reason people think everyone of muslim faith is a terrorist.

Doesn't the FCC have to regulate the airwaves, meaning they have the option of not licensing Al J Am.


Now to play Devil's advocate - Being Anti-American and shouting death to america, IMO, are two different things. Because the US has a great thing about free speech, Al J can be the former and still be able to pay their opinion, but I don't think they will. I think they'll tone it down and really try to appeal to the US.

And I would love to see this article where Al Jazeera was a part of 9/11. Because, without seeing your source, I find that a pretty far stretch. Now. I see you are very opinionated, and I'm just trying to understand it on a deeper level.


when i read "i think they'll tone it down" you suggest the other aljazeera channels are anti-american, which is false. i don't know if you watch aljazeera english, but it's imo one of the best newsprograms in the world.

I don't think I've spoken too you before, so hello. And no, I don't get Al J E. because most American companies don't carry it.

And I'm basing tone it down on that article that said they can take two directions.

But I wish I could watch AJE, and I don't think they're anti American, I just think they aren't afraid to carry stories that aren't glorifying Washington.

 

 

hello! that's a pitty then, b/c imo ajam is never going to be of the same journalistic excellence as al jazeera english, because it's made for a specific group of people (like aljazeera arabic and aljazeera balkans, and soon aljazeera turkey) and focus on regional news, problems, etc. meanwhile aje is for an international audience. they stream online on their website, i highly recommend you to watch a few news bulletins, so you can compare it to ajam when they launch.

 

true, it remains to be seen what ajam is going to do.



#36 jjerome95

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 07:29 PM

I will do that. Thanks!


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#37 Charles

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:12 PM

when i read "i think they'll tone it down" you suggest the other aljazeera channels are anti-american, which is false. i don't know if you watch aljazeera english, but it's imo one of the best newsprograms in the world.

 

They used to produce some of the best programming out of their Washington bureau. Fault Lines had some of the best American reporting produced, Shihab Rattansi's hour of news at night was a great look into news across the Americas, and Riz Khan's show was great as always. In some ways, I wish they had just stuck to that strategy for the American market.

 

Jerome, you can watch AJE in a pretty good quality stream on their website. It'll be going away in a few weeks though. The U.S. cable companies don't want it, which is silly because it's now been established that AJAM will be very different from AJE. Some PBS substations also carry an hour of news from AJE, so you can also look into it there. Here's a link to which stations have it.



#38 jjerome95

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:14 PM

One of my local stations is listed there. Had no idea. 


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#39 Boaserpent

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:42 PM

 

when i read "i think they'll tone it down" you suggest the other aljazeera channels are anti-american, which is false. i don't know if you watch aljazeera english, but it's imo one of the best newsprograms in the world.

 

They used to produce some of the best programming out of their Washington bureau. Fault Lines had some of the best American reporting produced, Shihab Rattansi's hour of news at night was a great look into news across the Americas, and Riz Khan's show was great as always. In some ways, I wish they had just stuck to that strategy for the American market.

 

Jerome, you can watch AJE in a pretty good quality stream on their website. It'll be going away in a few weeks though. The U.S. cable companies don't want it, which is silly because it's now been established that AJAM will be very different from AJE. Some PBS substations also carry an hour of news from AJE, so you can also look into it there. Here's a link to which stations have it.

 

indeed, but i think aje still does fault lines. i think it's seasonal like earthrise.

 

true, the streaming of aljazeera english will be geo-blocked for  people inside america. but it's easy to circumvent the block by using addons like "hola unblocked".



#40 HaBa

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:23 PM

@Charles: I tend to agree 100% with you pretty much all the time and you were perfect on your post.

 

Thanks for the nice words, Charles and CA. Going off topic, I've found myself watching less CNNI over the last couple of months for a number of reasons - including lack of time. Same goes for my time spent here. And, yes, CA, I've found that the forum has gone on a way that doesn't appeal to me as much as content. Also, people that used to add a lot to the discussions have been away as well (Charles included ;)). But I'll continue to pop up on a regular basis! It's been fun, but life goes on! :)


Edited by HaBa, 06 August 2013 - 10:24 PM.




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